[sphorru]

wth has happend to the econimy...its been messed up for a while...but 2 tristars 2.5mil thats just wroung... Whats next selling hybs 500k myths 1 mil... Light belts are now down to 600k... does any one know when this will end

((im just upset because i paid 7 for my tristar set last week))

This post has been edited by sphorru: 16 July 2004 - 07:13 AM

[Vredick]

People learned how to port and are abusing the Porte quest.

[Rogue_forben]

Tristars are in a boat of their own at the moment as there is an exploit to be able to get them easier. People port to the different rooms etc. If you see them selling for that low, thats prolly how they got them =/

[Vredick]

Selling that low doesn't necessarily mean they didn't get them legally. If you had a pair of tristars that you had gotten in hopes of selling them, would you say you're selling them for 10 mil, even though people were selling them for 2-3 mil?

[ChaosClleric]

at least hubs are staying the same price

[Vendge]

sphorru, on Jul 16 2004, 07:12 AM, said:

wth has happend to the econimy...its been messed up for a while...but 2 tristars 2.5mil thats just wroung... Whats next selling hybs 500k myths 1 mil... Light belts are now down to 600k... does any one know when this will end

((im just upset because i paid 7 for my tristar set last week))

The only reason why hybs are going down is because now any half assed newbie char can hunt chaos 11 with an half decent caster.

Myths are not going to go down any soon.

And between you and I, you'd be here crying about how prices are too high if you had to pay 40m for your hybs and 20m for tristars.


ONOES TEH ECONOMY IS MESSED UP!

[Cronus]

Maybe we should apply for economic aid?

[VladRakul]

The econemy is not messed up. It WAS messed up for a year or two. Everything is going back to the prices they origanally were Deochs ago. Just shows how new some players are. When I started playing DB's were like 200k or 300k. It's retarded to spend 40M+ for a pair of frig'n boots. Or anything else for that matter. I'm glad that everything is returning to normal. Besides , prices will shoot up again in 6 months or so. They always do.

[Dedos]

The ecomony is messed though, there is no way to get money other then by hunting chaos, or getting really lucky and fiding a really rare item

[Woopidoo]

Gotta admit with Vlad there, Its true, Plus i'd much rather pay less for things i need. All GM sets are gettin cheaper and cheaper which must be a good thing.

[Cantarella]

I had noticed a lot of tristars going way down in price. I didn't really think much of it- hybs going for 10mil or lower now that used to be... 30mil or higher. (I am a new player, but I still remember a little bit.) I also saw some guy spamming something like "Learn to port" ....probably a keylogger, I thought to myself, but what if it was real and everybody was doing it? -shrug-

I think that doing stuff like this takes the fun out of the game- how can you feel accomplished by doing the quest when you cheated? That's really all it is :9

[Dysin]

BaraNoAme, on Jul 16 2004, 11:02 AM, said:

I had noticed a lot of tristars going way down in price. I didn't really think much of it- hybs going for 10mil or lower now that used to be... 30mil or higher. (I am a new player, but I still remember a little bit.) I also saw some guy spamming something like "Learn to port" ....probably a keylogger, I thought to myself, but what if it was real and everybody was doing it? -shrug-

I think that doing stuff like this takes the fun out of the game- how can you feel accomplished by doing the quest when you cheated? That's really all it is :9

When people spam stuff like that, it means one of two things:

1. It's a keylogger
2. They've recently had their character blocked and they're trying to "get back" at the game by spreading information that shouldn't be spread.

Either way, the person doing so is a moron, and I wouldn't recommend contact with them.

Yes, tristars are going down at an increasing rate for aforementioned reasons.
Yes, the economy is messed up as dedos said because there are only two or three items that really sell for anything anymore.

Anyone without a master character (ie: someone just starting the game) has no way to afford repairs.

There're two moves that I think would lead to a better economy.
-Add a variety of useful but rare equipment to a variety of already existing hunting areas, including "newbie" areas. Things like the carnun champion are a perfect example of how these could be implemented.
-Lower repair costs. If only by 10%, how are new players expected to afford repairs when they can't make more than 100k on a hunt?

[Vredick]

Changing the cost of repairs would probably be the easiest thing for them to do.
Repair costs are determined like this:
((Current Durability-Total Durability)/Total Durability)*Value
So, a quick way to cut repairs would be to change Value to (Value/2)

[Erizo]

The problem with any online economy is keeping the flow of money balanced. The amount of money being created must be the same as the amount being destroyed (and by "created" I mean appearing in monster drops etc., and by "destroyed" I mean being spent on repairs and such.) Whenever a country has printed money en masse throughout history, MASSIVE inflation has occurred (at one point, people used million-mark bills as toilet paper because they were literally worth less than the paper they were printed on.) Obviously things won't get THAT bad in DA because there will always be some money getting pumped out, but if more money is coming in than going out, the same thing can happen on a smaller scale.

However, the exact opposite is currently happening - since Nexon nerfed Nobis and then the unknown depths, more money is being spent on repairs (throughout the community as a whole) than is being created. This means we will have massive deflation. Eventually, several things can happen:

1. Nexon sets money drops back the way they were. Prices go back up, and people make more money.

2. Nexon does nothing. Prices eventually hit a stable point, money is hard to get, and repairs are rather expensive in comparison, and a real burden.

3. Nexon continues with whatever weird reasoning they had for nerfing money drops and nerf many more forms of income. Money is now REALLY REALLY hard to get (in comparison to several deochs ago) and only the elite can afford repairs from mundanes. Others have to find trustworthy people with the "repair soori / mend weapon / repair this-or-that" skills to fix their gear. Theft abounds as people with those skills scam others and don't return their broken stuff. General chaos and economic ruin follows.

I am hoping they go with choice #1, of course, but #2 wouldn't really be so bad. I'm pretty sure they aren't dumb enough to go with #3, but then again, I don't know how much attention they pay to the game's economic situation.

As a general rule, raising money drops is good for new players, as money is easier to get and they can get on their feet quickly, but bad for old players because their hard-earned cash is worth less. In contrast, lowering money drops is good for old players because their savings are worth more, and bad for new players because it's harder for them to get the gear they need.


I think Nexon oughta just take a look at how much money is going into and out of the game and try to strike a balance, that way we won't have to worry about all the fluctuation going on (as much).

(Edit: misspelled some stuff)

This post has been edited by Erizo: 16 July 2004 - 01:21 PM

[Sajikis]

errrr ya what erizo said ...........

[Moiraine]

Dysin, on Jul 16 2004, 01:35 PM, said:

When people spam stuff like that, it means one of two things:

1. It's a keylogger
2. They've recently had their character blocked and they're trying to "get back" at the game by spreading information that shouldn't be spread.

Either way, the person doing so is a moron, and I wouldn't recommend contact with them.

Yes, tristars are going down at an increasing rate for aforementioned reasons.
Yes, the economy is messed up as dedos said because there are only two or three items that really sell for anything anymore.

Anyone without a master character (ie: someone just starting the game) has no way to afford repairs.

There're two moves that I think would lead to a better economy.
-Add a variety of useful but rare equipment to a variety of already existing hunting areas, including "newbie" areas. Things like the carnun champion are a perfect example of how these could be implemented.
-Lower repair costs. If only by 10%, how are new players expected to afford repairs when they can't make more than 100k on a hunt?

Umm, where else have money drops decreased other than areas hunted by masters?

EW and CR are still viable areas for hunting gold. Fiosachd prayer is also another method. People just got lazy with gold coming in so easily. This is how people had to get their cash in the early Deochs.

[Chronox]

or put everything in shops for a set price.. so here we've got a db for 1.5m in a shop, no one can sell less than 1.5m because they're losing money compared to buying new ones. and no one can sell for over 1.5m because people would simply use the shop.

these arent exact prices its just random numbers =/ but you get the idea

[Krodis]

This is deflation. It is fixing the economy. The only problem is the insnae repairs. Otherwise this is good for the economy.

[Duplico]

What I believe we need is something that is specifically a money-gathering activity. For instance, in Nexus, if I needed gold for a spell, I would spend two hours or so killing sheep and selling the wool to weavers, or spending however much time I needed to get the gold I needed. It's an activity that does not require a group, does not require effort other than the actual gathering and selling, and has no purpose other than getting wool (for either weaving or selling to make money.) Virtually anyone can do it, with varying degrees of effectiveness depending on insight, but anyone can make money off of it.

What I want is the equivilant of a sheep field, or a place where there are just Crypt chests that drop 15k each (as opposed to what they drop now) running around or something, because right now we lack any real activity where the specific and central purpose is making gold.

Edit:

A healthy economy should experience minor inflation, unless I'm mistaken.

This post has been edited by Duplico: 16 July 2004 - 02:06 PM

[Krodis]

Duplico, on Jul 16 2004, 06:04 PM, said:

Edit:

A healthy economy should experience minor inflation, unless I'm mistaken.

Yes, but DA economy, over the past 3 years or so, has gone through MAJOR INFLATION.

Besides, it's a game economy, most rules dont apply, we're not comparing it to other e-economies.



And about the sheep thing.

Wooling in Nexus is so damn annoying.

[Tokyo]

Chronox, on Jul 16 2004, 01:52 PM, said:

or put everything in shops for a set price.. so here we've got a db for 1.5m in a shop, no one can sell less than 1.5m because they're losing money compared to buying new ones. and no one can sell for over 1.5m because people would simply use the shop.

these arent exact prices its just random numbers =/ but you get the idea

But what you have to remember is that with that kind of system, "rich" players would buy all the dbs (or whatever item) in the shops and sell them for outrageous prices anyway. =/

[Sajikis]

AmelieDevi, on Jul 16 2004, 03:11 PM, said:

But what you have to remember is that with that kind of system, "rich" players would buy all the dbs (or whatever item) in the shops and sell them for outrageous prices anyway. =/

"WORD"

[Starza]

NightBreak, on Jul 16 2004, 06:10 PM, said:

And about the sheep thing.

Wooling in Nexus is so damn annoying.

Then mine, smith, weave the wool into cloth and sell that. Woodcutting. There's many methods of making money in Nexus.

At least you'd have something to do, unlike in DA, when you're not hunting, you're taking up space in the Ruc in, chatting with a friend, hopefully. Otherwise, you're just afk.

Here's a bright idea for the DA Team, actually make the crap that's dropped all around SELLABLE. Over 75% of crap that's dropped by monsters just sits there because you can't sell it. If we could sell drops, people would make money that way and the n00bies would be able to sell the crap they get from hunts and afford repairs.

[Erizo]

Chronox, on Jul 16 2004, 02:52 PM, said:

or put everything in shops for a set price.. so here we've got a db for 1.5m in a shop, no one can sell less than 1.5m because they're losing money compared to buying new ones. and no one can sell for over 1.5m because people would simply use the shop.

these arent exact prices its just random numbers =/ but you get the idea

People could still sell things for less than the mundanes. If something suddenly becomes easier to get, say, DBs are made to drop more often, people will stop paying the mundane's prices because they're too high, and will instead buy it from other players for a more reasonable price.

[Saia]

People are learning how to use tsearch, as far as the tristars go... I've been seeing more and more masters with Porte forest legend marks after their master ones. I guess some people just wanted to keep ((I'm a cheating hacker))-esque legend marks.

As for the economy, the lowered repairs seem feasible, and with enough angry spam mail sent to them Nexon should get the whole thing in gear.
It seems like people are selling things for a lot less gold in light of the lowered drops, though. GM sets are incredibly cheap and hybs, for example, have gone down from 20 mil to ~13 in the last 5 Deochs. Which benefits gold-hourders in so many ways. So I suggest for everyone to hourde their gold until they can come up with an intelligent and useful solution to balance their pixelated checkbooks.

@Duplico: The sheep field is kind of like UD, isn't it?
Anyone who's bored enough can become rich.

[Sajikis]

Starza, on Jul 16 2004, 03:19 PM, said:

Here's a bright idea for the DA Team, actually make the crap that's dropped all around SELLABLE.  Over 75% of crap that's dropped by monsters just sits there because you can't sell it.  If we could sell drops, people would make money that way and the n00bies would be able to sell the crap they get from hunts and afford repairs.

o.0 maybe that would also help cut down on the lag!

edit: typo

This post has been edited by shinsen: 16 July 2004 - 02:22 PM

[Duplico]

NightBreak, on Jul 16 2004, 04:10 PM, said:

Yes, but DA economy, over the past 3 years or so, has gone through MAJOR INFLATION.

Besides, it's a game economy, most rules dont apply, we're not comparing it to other e-economies.

Yeah, you're right about that. I guess since most real life economic problems involve loans and debt, which don't really exist (very much) in Dark Ages?


And, yeah, wooling's annoying, but it's something you can do just to make money, which is handy. It's a little like UD, except it's something you can do without bothering with a boat or being part of a quest. For me, it's just walking out of the House of Chi and, bam bam bam, ice shards on the sheep and wool for me. =P


What if Dark Ages was made to keep a running total of the amount of gold that exists in the hands of all registered players at any given moment? Repair costs, skill/spell costs, and even item costs (but mostly repairs) could be calculated as a certain fraction of the total amount of money. That would be quite an enormous change, though.

[Chronox]

ya but people are too greedy. if you saw a hat selling for 10k in a store and you were trin to sell them, how far under 10k would you ACTUALLY go? 9.9? 9.8? 9? just needa fix the whole problem of people hoarding, but thats a new case all in itself..

[Erizo]

Duplico, on Jul 16 2004, 03:24 PM, said:

What if Dark Ages was made to keep a running total of the amount of gold that exists in the hands of all registered players at any given moment? Repair costs, skill/spell costs, and even item costs (but mostly repairs) could be calculated as a certain fraction of the total amount of money. That would be quite an enormous change, though.

That could work, but rather than be based on how much money is around, I think it would be better to be based on how fast money is being made. Otherwise, if people save up lots of money, repair costs would suddenly jump up. What I think it should do is, at a certain time each week, find out how much money has been made in the past week. Then, it should find out how much money was spent in the last week, from bank deposit costs, repairs and such. Then, to maintain a balance, it should raise or lower ALL expenditures a certain percentage so that expenditures the next week should be about the same as income. (Or perhaps a little less, to make up for the fact that new players are always coming in.)

[Radical Edward]

I don't like tristars

This post has been edited by Etna: 16 July 2004 - 05:25 PM