[Teucer]

I'm a little confused as to what a mogue does and whether or not they are effective anymore. So I have a few questions (please don't yell at me if all these questions have been answered before)


1. With claw fist removed, do monk/rogues still make ok bashers?

2. Now that archers have come out, are they significantly better than gm monk/rogues?

3. A friend of mine is going priest/wizard with 0 adorations. Will we be able to 2 man for decent/great exp? I hear that prizards have a hard time in chaos, so i'm just wondering if there are any other areas where a prizard/ mogue/archer combo would be able to hunt.

4. What are those axes that I see every archer carrying around? does using those allow the archer to do assassin strike? If so, is assassin strike based on the damage of the weapon?

5. If the role of an archer is to deal damage with star arrow from afar, is there still a point to dion?

6. Basically, will i curse myself forever for going mogue? I've seen very few mogues compared to pure rogue/archers, and certainly much fewer mogues than morriors.

I know it's a lot of questions, but if you could answer, that would be wonderful. Thank you.

[Niroshi]

Teucer, on Nov 9 2004, 04:21 PM, said:

I'm a little confused as to what a mogue does and whether or not they are effective anymore. So I have a few questions (please don't yell at me if all these questions have been answered before)


1. With claw fist removed, do monk/rogues still make ok bashers?

2. Now that archers have come out, are they significantly better than gm monk/rogues?

3. A friend of mine is going priest/wizard with 0 adorations. Will we be able to 2 man for decent/great exp? I hear that prizards have a hard time in chaos, so i'm just wondering if there are any other areas where a prizard/ mogue/archer combo would be able to hunt.

4. What are those axes that I see every archer carrying around? does using those allow the archer to do assassin strike? If so, is assassin strike based on the damage of the weapon?

5. If the role of an archer is to deal damage with star arrow from afar, is there still a point to dion?

6. Basically, will i curse myself forever for going mogue? I've seen very few mogues compared to pure rogue/archers, and certainly much fewer mogues than morriors.

I know it's a lot of questions, but if you could answer, that would be wonderful. Thank you.

1.) They're only slightly better than a pure rogue because of the fact they only have 1 more assail.

2.) Yes.

3.) You will be able to 2 man just fine, i know plenty of prizards that hunt chaos regularly.

4.) Throwing Axe, you can buy them in UD, forget how much but they're the best weapon that you can stab with, excluding master daggers.

5.) Yes.

6.) No

[Aes]

1) They've always been mediocre bashers, but yeah, you can definitely feel the difference with them pre-nerf and now.

2) YES

3) Mount giragan is great for monk/rogues to bash in once they have moderately decent stats. After becoming an archer, nobis and shinewood (watch for greens though!) aren't bad, either.

4) Throw axes. They are bought in the unknown depths store, and are currently the best 'dagger' (amnesia, throw suri, etc) weapon an archer or nonmaster rogue can equip.

5) Yes, there is always a point to a spell that negates all damage. :P

6) Well, after you get bored of spamming star arrow and subpar melee ability, you might find yourself wishing you'd gone monk/warr instead, but even then monk/rogue is the best bet if you actually want a master rogue/archer. Then again, I just hate rogues as a general rule, so I'm biased.

Oh, and the reason you see so many pure rogues, is because they are typically a player's newbie/first-time character, and they just wanted a quick master.

Edit: I might as well combine my 2 posts, so...

Niroshi, on Nov 9 2004, 12:24 PM, said:

1.) They're only slightly better than a pure rogue because of the fact they only have 1 more assail.

Err, you're forgetting about a slew of monk kicks, including the rather-strong mantis and (depending on your form) dtk. They are much stronger at bashing than pure rogues, but then again, so is pretty much everything else.

[Niroshi]

Aesica, on Nov 9 2004, 04:28 PM, said:

Err, you're forgetting about a slew of monk kicks, including the rather-strong mantis and (depending on your form) dtk. They are much stronger at bashing than pure rogues, but then again, so is pretty much everything else.

Not really, unless you sub draco not many monk subs make any use of their kicks since monk is the only path that goes barehanded and every kick excluding draco that you can sub with can't be used with weapons.

[Rainwind]

Niroshi, on Nov 9 2004, 04:37 PM, said:

Not really, unless you sub draco not many monk subs make any use of their kicks since monk is the only path that goes barehanded and every kick excluding draco that you can sub with can't be used with weapons.

Monk/rogue can easily remove the weapon to utilize the few seconds of claw fist along with kick combos then re-equip. It just takes slight effort. :p

-Prizards and mogues make for a pretty strong killing force, also fun and versatile to hunt with.

-Mogue makes for a safe hunting partner; as an archer you still have to lure and blind creatures, thus dion makes that safer to do.

-You can always make another character if you get bored.

[SilentHawk]

monk kick combo? lol Mantis kick+kick+high kick "wow"

[vethor]

having your own ao dall makes making sets a lot easier too when hunting with incompetant casters

[Aes]

SilentHawk, on Nov 9 2004, 03:20 PM, said:

monk kick combo? lol Mantis kick+kick+high kick "wow"

Kick/high kick shouldn't even be considered part of a combo. Even still, while mantis isn't really worth unequiping your weapon to use as a monkwarr, the extra damage as a monk/rogue (read: suck-ass assails) is rather useful when bashing monsters using the proper element.

Even if you use a weapon + cath shield, its incredibly easy to unequip, use, re-equip so there is no excuse. :D

[vethor]

Aesica, on Nov 9 2004, 04:02 PM, said:

Kick/high kick shouldn't even be considered part of a combo. Even still, while mantis isn't really worth unequiping your weapon to use as a monkwarr, the extra damage as a monk/rogue (read: suck-ass assails) is rather useful when bashing monsters using the proper element.

Even if you use a weapon + cath shield, its incredibly easy to unequip, use, re-equip so there is no excuse. :D

not to mention it makes them a lot more effective in sw when you run into groups of beetles so you dont have to wait for as regen to be abel to kill somthing pure rogues cant bash beetles for [filtered] even with max stats

[SilentHawk]

Aesica, on Nov 9 2004, 04:02 PM, said:

Kick/high kick shouldn't even be considered part of a combo. Even still, while mantis isn't really worth unequiping your weapon to use as a monkwarr, the extra damage as a monk/rogue (read: suck-ass assails) is rather useful when bashing monsters using the proper element.

Even if you use a weapon + cath shield, its incredibly easy to unequip, use, re-equip so there is no excuse. :D

Rogues only have 150 con so mantis really isn't worth unequipping on them either.

[Radical Edward]

Mogues are decent for hunting? I just use mine to sit around and look good. o_o

[SilentHawk]

At archer, they're about equal to a monk/warr at kill speed, and faster than them in chaos...

[Keldrin]

I don't think mogues get enough credit, They're an overall cool class, with nice benefits.

Hunting: Strongest single dark attack, Great group light attack, that's low on mana and makes for easy two manability with any mogue smart enough to get about 20k mp.

Arena: AS, Kelb, WFF, Suain traps, ambush, 'decent' attacks. I can't see many beating this class one on one? Yes most wiests/priests will destroy them, but anyone who can Suain, AS hit the '~' key and run off mantis and kelb and crap is going to kill any wiest under 20k hp Pretty easily :(, providing they can time suain.

Monk/wars...Hide, if they cats hear take care of them, if not simply run around for a while and do the wff duel funnage.

Dion, Mantis kick the pure war, if your dioned mantis kick wont reflect damage to you, same with other kicks, nice way to hurt a pure war.

And if your going to make any rogue class, mogue is the way to go.

[Aes]

SilentHawk, on Nov 9 2004, 04:59 PM, said:

Rogues only have 150 con so mantis really isn't worth unequipping on them either.

When I was maxing stats on mine in giragan, using mantis proved to be quite effective against things when AS was still recharging. Of course, I used both it and dtk together, so maybe that's why. Either way, it does much more damage than several equipped-weapon monk/rogue assails, so its really up to the player if they want to deal with the unequip/re-equip for the extra damage burst.

[Quinteras]

mogue is fun i love it dtk + mantis is a nice combo and having 2 dions is great hit em both at the same time and usually dion never fails and compared to a pure mogue > pure any day of the week.

[Hyrulian]

Quint, both of my pure rogues > yours.

Even my unmaxed one.

Anyways, yes a mogue is better if you dont have alot of time. But overall the pure rogue is better, unless the mogue is kelb. a DTK mogue, has no advantage over a pure rogue. Other than dion, but after certain hp its useless. and Shadow figure is very nice in chaos.

And yes, there is no point to a dtk mogue. Please tell me when a archer is going to bash other than useing AS. kelb,dion are the only things i see that is of any use.

but kelb mogue > pure rogue x1000000
a draco mogue is crap.

This post has been edited by Hyrulian: 10 November 2004 - 01:22 PM

[Aes]

Hyrulian, on Nov 10 2004, 01:22 PM, said:

And yes, there is no point to a dtk mogue. Please tell me when a archer is going to bash other than useing AS. kelb,dion are the only things i see that is of any use.

When you're in shinewood/giragan, and have a bunch of light-defense creatures all ready to be killed. You can AS one, and then either slap (not bash, but slap) away at the next one until AS is useable again, or you can nail it with dtk + mantis for some pretty decent damage. Since the clawfist nerf, monkrogue assails are only marginally better than pure rogue assails which are known to suck horribly.

If you're into arena, obviously kelb is the better choice, but otherwise the extra power from dtk really does help a character that otherwise assails like an insight 50 srad wizard with a battle sword.

[Quinteras]

Hyrulian, on Nov 10 2004, 01:22 PM, said:

Quint, both of my pure rogues > yours.

Even my unmaxed one.

Anyways, yes a mogue is better if you dont have alot of time. But overall the pure rogue is better, unless the mogue is kelb. a DTK mogue, has no advantage over a pure rogue. Other than dion, but after certain hp its useless. and Shadow figure is very nice in chaos.

And yes, there is no point to a dtk mogue. Please tell me when a archer is going to bash other than useing AS. kelb,dion are the only things i see that is of any use.

but kelb mogue > pure rogue x1000000
a draco mogue is crap.

dion never loses its usefulness even if you have 100k hp no repairs are nice or low repairs instead if huge ones from lack of dion.

and ill admit shadow figure > ambush x1000 instant ambush is nice but no matter what mogue is better than pure.

[_sl0t_]

If you're a good player, go pure

SF owns and dion isn't the ultimate-awesome spell, with a good caster you can have 0 repairs, not a big deal.
yes, mogues bash a lot more faster than pures, but I don't see why someone would prefer bashing if you can SA and AS.

but if you're lazy, likes to bash and wanna grow fast, go mogue.
That's what my bro did, a mogue just to grow fast and hunt in chaos.

if you just want to make a regular mogue, go draco. dtk helps bashing in mtg.
if you want a main mogue that you'll always play, go kelb.

I still prefers wigues over all others rogues :P

Quote

but no matter what mogue is better than pure

You're so wrong that I had to edit my post to correct you. :P
I hunted with dozens of archer of all kinds and what I can say for sure is that overall, pures > mogues anytime (hunting of course, I don't give a [filtered] about arena)

mogues are usually so busy checking dion and trying to bash that they don't do the rogue job.
OMG blinds!
Why do I want a rogue that doesn't even knows when his blinds are going to run? Most mogues don't know that, because they have the all powerfull dion *sighs*

pures know how to do their jobs AND have sf, a skill that makes them even more efficient.
of course that's not a rule, I know 2 or 3 useless pures and 2 or 3 great mogues.

the only problem with pures is that they can't go luring alone, but any good wiest/wizard or even priest can be a better lurer than any kind of rogue.

This post has been edited by _sl0t_: 12 November 2004 - 12:03 PM

[Keldrin]

Quote

mogues are usually so busy checking dion and trying to bash that they don't do the rogue job.
OMG blinds!
Why do I want a rogue that doesn't even knows when his blinds are going to run? Most mogues don't know that, because they have the all powerfull dion *sighs*

A mogue would kill everything before blinds went unless they're with a sucky caster.

Quote

the only problem with pures is that they can't go luring alone, but any good wiest/wizard or even priest can be a better lurer than any kind of rogue.

Nah, places where monsters chase you when your blind (Aka nobis or SW) Is great for rogues, cut down their spells with blinds, and lure them by hiding.

Quote

pures know how to do their jobs AND have sf, a skill that makes them even more efficient.
of course that's not a rule, I know 2 or 3 useless pures and 2 or 3 great mogues.

What pure are you hunting with? Most pures have no clue how to do their job, no stereotyping based on path :)

Shadow figure, monster ai is very simple no? Any smart character would know when to ambush, and when to not, don't think a Mogue is like a pure priest or anything, they can still manuever quite well.

Edit:

Quote

but if you're lazy, likes to bash and wanna grow fast, go mogue.
That's what my bro did, a mogue just to grow fast and hunt in chaos.

Out of curiosity, who do you think is more lazy, a red/black dugon mogue, or a pure rogue? .......................................................

This post has been edited by Keldrin: 13 November 2004 - 07:58 PM

[SiLo]

I find it amusing that the people that ask questions in the proper manner always seem to wind up putting" (So please do not flame me, I'm just wondering.)" or something to that effect. It amuses me.

But yeah, I think everything here has been answered.

[Quinteras]

_sl0t_, on Nov 12 2004, 11:55 AM, said:

If you're a good player, go pure

SF owns and dion isn't the ultimate-awesome spell, with a good caster you can have 0 repairs, not a big deal.
yes, mogues bash a lot more faster than pures, but I don't see why someone would prefer bashing if you can SA and AS.

but if you're lazy, likes to bash and wanna grow fast, go mogue.
That's what my bro did, a mogue just to grow fast and hunt in chaos.

if you just want to make a regular mogue, go draco. dtk helps bashing in mtg.
if you want a main mogue that you'll always play, go kelb.

I still prefers wigues over all others rogues :P



You're so wrong that I had to edit my post to correct you. :P
I hunted with dozens of archer of all kinds and what I can say for sure is that overall, pures > mogues anytime (hunting of course, I don't give a [filtered] about arena)

mogues are usually so busy checking dion and trying to bash that they don't do the rogue job.
OMG blinds!
Why do I want a rogue that doesn't even knows when his blinds are going to run? Most mogues don't know that, because they have the all powerfull dion *sighs*

pures know how to do their jobs AND have sf, a skill that makes them even more efficient.
of course that's not a rule, I know 2 or 3 useless pures and 2 or 3 great mogues.

the only problem with pures is that they can't go luring alone, but any good wiest/wizard or even priest can be a better lurer than any kind of rogue.

i dont know what mogues youve hunted with but i know how to play a mogue/rouge/rouge sub blinds are easy and like the other guy said a mogue will kill everything thats blind before it runs tahts doing 2 jobs unlike a pure who can barley survive blinds and taking damage because of lack of dion can you name any pure who could solo nobis and medusa quest full? i can name a mogue that did it daily and was the best ive personally ever seen on a mogue. too bad hes blocked now :(