[Yoink]

I'm from an older deoch, really old.

When I heard the pure rogue/archer was actually somewhat decent - I about went into shock. What makes them good? Their AB armor looks awesome, as well as some of the bows. Where can they handle hunting the most? What circumstances are they used most in?


Any details about the class would be great, really. I searched around in the forums a bit - I can't really find the information I want to know or want broken down.

[Fishfood:D]

pure archers arent really that good compared to subs.

frost arrow is really good for the newer areas like canals.
star arrow got buffed so its much stronger.

the pure exclusive stuff, life arrow and volley aren't that good.
volley misses ALOT and life arrow has a 3min cooldown

[Yoink]

So in comparison to a mogue, they're not that great?

I've been told quite a few different things, trying to get clarification before I decide on anything.

[Fishfood:D]

Yoink, on Jul 27 2007, 07:41 PM, said:

So in comparison to a mogue, they're not that great?

I've been told quite a few different things, trying to get clarification before I decide on anything.

dion is better than anything pure archers get :x

[Yoink]

I see.

Hyrulian, post here plz.

[Zuru]

Archers are best in Chaos hunts.

[SilentHawk]

I'd take shadow figure over dion because in almost all of the newer areas, either it's a bad idea to dion (mines, andor) or you don't have the mp to dion (ch2). Plus, it seems that skill resistance is the "new awesome thing" in that just about every area has it, which is bad for using Ambush. If you get surrounded and it misses, you get screwed ("You can dion," you say? You won't have the mp to!), so Shadow Figure is a winrar there.

[Zaronto]

Progue ftw

Im a little bias here tho cause i have a 2 ador progue and with the staff of ages he kinda rocks.

This post has been edited by Waronto: 27 July 2007 - 07:31 PM

[Yoink]

I think I would rather spontaneously combust than wait for 2adors.

[Zaronto]

Yoink, on Jul 27 2007, 11:35 PM, said:

I think I would rather spontaneously combust than wait for 2adors.

You don't have to wait for 2 adors.. a progue doesn't absolutely need DF or Suain or Dall. I'm just so used to having them on my wiest, that I wanted them.

[OneWithTraps~]

DF on archer is actually amazing. I think DF is one of the most underrated skills ever.

The advantages of pure rogue is shadow figure like silent said. the other stuff isn't that great. life arrow is alright and helps save buying reds, or redding people surrounded but is a 2 minute cool down, which may not seem like a lot, but is.

shadow figure deals minor damage and doesn't unhide you and has no cool down(if you don't know already too it's an ambush) It's used often to solo with poison traps because it doesn't unhide the rogue. By setting poisons and coming back to spots you normally couldn't solo you can kill everything wile hidden just by hopping over them at 100 hp. Subs can do this too 'sort of' but it's more difficult as they have to rehide with every attack and aim while pures can just spam ambush. This is probably one of the few things pure rogues do much more effectively then subs. Another example of shadow figure being used tactical is having an infinite ambush while blinding mobs for SA.

When people are talking in general though about archers being good, they are talking about anything-archer since all subs and pure archer get Star Arrow which is a very strong light attack capable of hunting chaos and nobis with good ease. Pure archers are good because archers are good, subs are just better.

With this light attacking spell, archers also have great ac.(second best possible[class wise] in the game if they have the Arcane Gauntlet)
On top of a light spell they have Assassin Strike which can be used to cause high dark damage(Making them good at both dark and light attacks)


With such high AC, Light and dark attacks and traps to immobilize monsters anything-archer is decent. It just requires going through tougher times with hp/mp/stat build ups.

This post has been edited by OneWithTraps~: 28 July 2007 - 03:58 PM

[Hemper]

Hello. I am from an older Deoch and just returning (Deoch 60). I researched all this stuff about pure updates... and, how lovely these trinkets are... My favorite class USE to be a Mogue. Are Mogues now replaced by Pures/Progues like this guy told me? Pures get their own Dion AND an ability to hide other people for 8 minutes... wow. Like, it'd be so much easier to bring a prizard or wiest down to Chaos 27, hiding them the whole way! Should I quit my old Mogue (ab 14, 39/24) and go for pure now? Also, if you know, how are Wiests these days, they were my second favorite :x...

[selkie]

Stick with your mogue. Wiests are still great.

[Hemper]

Thanks, but I am willing to restart an archer unless there really is an incentive to keep going Mogue. I could even make a pure bard. I just have been away too long to make a good decision. Should I keep playing a Mogue for the fact that I already have gone far on one, or is there actually good reason to pursue Mogue :S

[Neomith]

A mogue is still generally better in the arena (assuming you're Kelb, which gives you a reason to actually hunt hp). Hunting exp, I'd assume pures have a slight edge due to SF. No idea about AB hunting, since my highest AB was like...14 or something.

[Densai]

hurray, the great pure rogue vs. mogue debate. I wonder why there are so many of these o.o... Probably because there's not a HUGE difference between the two. I mean pure rogues have dion and ambush now. I wonder if they sent enough tickets if they'll get kelb, or possibly mantis kick.

Either way in terms of hunting if you have ambush, blind, and star arrow you should be good to go in most every area of tem. In medenia if you have AS/RS and frost arrow you should be good to go. Minus the ambush thing all rogues should be a competent choice, with each having their own pro's and con's.

Personally I like mogue. I believe it's the best rogue type path. I may be a bit bias since it's my main's class, and I happen to be the highest in that class..

So, with all that being said what are the real (albeit small differences) between the two paths? Well, the biggest difference in my opinion is arena potential. Mogues have a big one up on pure rogues with the simple skill Wolf fang fist. A small, but effective stun. With that I'm not only able to combo much much higher than my own hp, but I'm able to set up casters that aren't normally in the realm of being killable to lower bashers (Kyok, Dieu etc..) with AS (disarm) wff, and kelb strike. Star arrow on it's own is a deadly asset.. but all rogues get that so I won't bother mentioning it any further.

Dion for me.. is pretty much useless in terms of PvP becauseeee anyone that doesn't see it, or wait 8 seconds to combo pramh is useless in themselves. Pramh is evil :(. Dion will however, save you in a tight spot (when you have 5k hp and someone wants to wheel kick you, for example) Ambush.. I don't think is a huge factor in the arena, or hunting grounds, for me anyway. If you're surrounded that constantly outside of the arena, -You are doing something wrong- for setting up mobs in nobis, chaos etc.. it should only take you 10-15 seconds with maybe 1-2 ambushes. Pramh eliminates the mobility advantage of ambush on both classes.

The one thing I'm a little (spitefully at that) jealous of is the pure hide trinket. At whatever ab you get it (15 I think) You're able to hide your group on a whim, making movement through tough area's much much easier. I'm still able to compete with the fio hide.. however keeping up faith is a hindrance and annoying. Though, I only need to hide my partner 2-3 times anyway before a 700m+ hunt so the hindrance is well worth the pay off.

Oh, one last thing about mogues vs. pure rogues. Maxing your character! Pure rogues are a bitch to max. Mogues are as well, but not as much.

My in-game character is Tourne. Whisper or mail me if you have any further questions :) anddd I'll try to be as un-bias as I can be.

[Randem]

You forgot to mention you love yourself Tourne

[selkie]

I would only add to Densai's post by saying I prefer ambush over Shadow Figure.

As for wiests compared to pure bards? No comparison. Make a wiest. Being able to lure well with a lamh and go down chaos for a "700m+" hunt is very nice. Mesmerize is easily countered by a single assail.

[Acht]

Mesmerize is useful for Sgil.

[Eurynomus]

what about volley? is it good?

[Densai]

volley is.. I'd like to say broken.. because if it works as it's intended then I can't say I'm looking forward to any new skills/spells

[Zaleti]

Densai, on Jan 29 2010, 05:22 PM, said:

volley is.. I'd like to say broken.. because if it works as it's intended then I can't say I'm looking forward to any new skills/spells

I don't know if it's completely broken. I've seen pures in mines/LR casting FA volley, which may not be a necessity, but it certainly is an innovative help when those things spawn in bricks and chew/spam cup.

[Eurynomus]

I wonder if it works the way it's supposed to. I mean it's nice for 0 lining frost arrow yea... And I guess it does fast(er) damage with star arrow but that doesn't really matter. On da-wizard it says it casts the spell 15 times, but on my bar it seems to only cast about 3. If it DID cast -foo- spell 15 times that would be awesome as nurrz (star arrow) I'd guess.

[Zaleti]

Eurynomus, on Feb 6 2010, 02:58 PM, said:

And I guess it does fast(er) damage with star arrow but that doesn't really matter. On da-wizard it says it casts the spell 15 times, but on my bar it seems to only cast about 3. If it DID cast -foo- spell 15 times that would be awesome as nurrz (star arrow) I'd guess.

If it does make Star Arrow damage faster, then Pure Rogues would dominate hunting. Rogues get dion/unlimited hopping - that alone is adequate for a pure class IMO. Now if they should be able to cast SA5, which is what, stronger than DSG, up to 15 times on a group of creatures in Nobis or Chaos, would that mob even survive? Think about it... Help me out here you high-up archers. How many SA4/SA5 does it take to finish off a Nobis/Chaos mob on average? That would be an awesome sight to see. Has anyone performed Volley (100/100) in action with a strong SA?

[Neomith]

I'm pretty sure that Volley casts the 0/100 version of whatever spell it is assigned to, regardless of either spell/skill's level.

[Zaleti]

Neomith, on Feb 6 2010, 07:22 PM, said:

I'm pretty sure that Volley casts the 0/100 version of whatever spell it is assigned to, regardless of either spell/skill's level.

Hmm... it might still deal good damage with a high Star Arrow. I mean, I hear it goes up to 10. But, I'd like to know how successful Volley is at max. I've seen it miss too often (but that was like level 0-2/100 =x).

[02oracle]

Im sorry if this is old stuff, but I have a question about poison hunting. Ppl tell me about poison hunting, I went into nobis lvl 3 and died immediately after I rehide. I am base pure archer, I don't understand how you guys can survive the rehide.

[Thaldin]

02oracle, on Jul 14 2010, 06:32 AM, said:

Im sorry if this is old stuff, but I have a question about poison hunting. Ppl tell me about poison hunting, I went into nobis lvl 3 and died immediately after I rehide. I am base pure archer, I don't understand how you guys can survive the rehide.

Hehe, it's a little tricky to grasp at first. The object is to rehide fast enough without being caught, and it's especially annoying when lag cuts you off! The effective way to rehide instantly though requires using certain spells or skills immediately before casting hide (sort of like a combination). My experiences come from Dion. As a Monk/Rogue, I hit the the dion and hide hotkeys, in that order respectively. I find it efficient in places like Andor and Chaos which are quite dangerous. However, there's the other way of assail + hide (space bar + hotkey with hide). Eisd Creutair is decent in conjunction with hide, although the unfortunate thing is that Esid Creutair lasts the same amount of time Hide does ;/.

For base archer, Nobis is a great place to start out (just make sure you pick the right time and location to avoid chances of other players running into your poisoned creatures). Nobis creatures are not as quick to react as Chaos or Andor creatures. Try using the assail + hide method. Practice this method before going to hunt. You should notice your character remain in hidden mode (most of the time). If your hide breaks while you assail + hide, there is a chance you will be caught. What you want to do at this point is relog quickly. There's a good chance you can get away with broken hide in Nobis though compared to other areas. I also recommend you rehide (once hide spell reaches blue on the time scale) away from creatures if possible. Over time, you will get more experienced and be motivated to attempt this method in other areas like ones I have mentioned.

Good luck! Feel free to contact me in game (Thaldin) if you have any other questions.

This post has been edited by Thaldin: 14 July 2010 - 08:32 AM

[Densai]

Well what if Volley worked as intended? SA5 does about 35k to a caster against Aite/Fas/DS and the first hit against pramh would do 70k. Even if it only hit 4-5 times, almost no one could survive that.

I've done and seen a few tests being done, Volley against DS/aite/fas/pramh did as much damage as a singular SA of the same rank/int maybe once.. out of 15+ attempts.

What I can't understand is that after hunting 140 or 150 some odd bill on Tourne how it's inconceivable for me to possibly understand how Volley, or maybe a lesser, but similar spell could work. I'm pretty much a master of the Star arrow by now. :x

[Densai]

edit: delete

This post has been edited by Densai: 14 July 2010 - 11:56 AM